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shimmy at speed, tippy etc
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TOPIC: shimmy at speed, tippy etc
#834849
brianmac (User)
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shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
here is something i dug up :
either the link:
http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/steering/diagnosing-steering-wobbles/
or the text: see what they say about shields, etc
This article is written for those experiencing steering wobbles and struggling to resolve them. Steering wobbles can come from unexpected places outside of the usual suspects and most riders don’t realize how tiny little things can have a magnified affect on steering wobble under certain conditions. It is important to understand that steering wobbles can be caused by one big problem or a combination of many small ones. This means that diagnosing a wobble can sometimes take a lot of time, testing and troubleshooting before a true solution to the problem is found.

The first thing I usually recommend to someone experiencing a steering wobble is to ask a trusted friend (and experienced rider!) to take the bike for a spin. Obviously this doesn’t apply for dangerous or severe wobble situations, but a second opinion of a “normal” wobble can sometimes be enlightening. It has been my experience that sometimes people will overanalyze a problem like this to such a degree that they begin to confuse normal functioning with characteristics of steering wobble.

This list is loosely compiled from easiest to check/most likely to cause problems at the top and harder to check/less likely to cause problems towards the bottom.

Things to check when experiencing steering wobbles:

Check your tire pressure
Check for “cupped” or badly uneven tire wear (especially the rear tire)
Check both wheels to see if they lost a wheel weight
Remove both wheels
Check for bad bearings
Check trueness of axles
Check trueness of the wheels (primarily for spoke wheels)
Reinstall both wheels making sure they are installed properly
If you have a windshield, remove it. If the wobble goes away with the shield then reinstall it but adjust it. Minor tweaks of as little as 1/8″ can impact airflow and in turn cause or affect wobble. Sometimes a windshield can be mounted unevenly and this can cause wobble. This same thing applies to lowers as well.
Sit on the bike, squeeze the front hand brake to lock the front wheel and push forward. Do this a few times and listen for a clicking noise. Sometimes loading the front end in this manner will cause a bad or dry (all grease is gone) bearing to click. While doing this also watch closely to see if the steering stem/triple tree shows any signs of movement or “slop” in the bearings.
With the bike on a lift slowly turn the front end side to side, lock to lock and feel for flat spots, rough spots, etc in the bearings. Anything other than a completely smooth motion is an indication of bearing problems. Make sure when you’re doing this that you do not confuse drag or rubbing caused by wires and cables with actual bearing problems. Like in the last check you can also try lightly pushing and lifting the front end to check for movement or “slop” in the bearings.
If either of the 2 checks above point towards bad steering stem bearings then replace them
If all else fails to show improvement and the bearings appear to be ok you can try adjusting the stem tension using the assembly article as a guide. Obviously you will not need to disassemble and reassemble the entire steering stem, just use the article as a guide for setting and checking the proper pre-load.
Check the swingarm bearings, bad swingarm bearings can cause the wheels to not track in a straight line.
Check your suspension
Do you have overly sagged or worn-out front springs?
Is it possible you have worn out fork components like slider bushings? (high mileage mostly)
Do you have enough of the proper weight oil in the forks? (usually only an issue after a fork seal leak)
Are your forks aligned properly in the triple trees?
Are your rear shock bushings worn out?
Has anything suspension related been adjusted that could throw the steering geometry out of whack?
Check your tires
Are you running mixed brands front and rear? On rare occasion 2 different brands won’t “play well together”
Are you mixing bias-ply and radials? This is only OK if the radial is in the back
Has the bike been wrecked or laid down?
Are the front forks and triple trees twisted?
Is it possible you have a bent frame?
When all else fails start checking around the bike for any bit of weight that can vibrate. It is best to remove whatever you can, even if only temporarily, to eliminate the source of the problem. If you get to this point and nothing else has worked then you really need to start looking long and hard at almost every nut & bolt on the bike for a cause or solution
Adjust exhaust hanger brackets
Check motor mounts and mounting hardware
Check luggage and saddlebags – ensure they are packed in a balanced manner
 
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#834850
brianmac (User)
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
ok i am going thru this bike,(did stem bearings,etc)still have tippy at speed. i pulled front axle, and laid on cast iron table saw(in different areas on table ), and it appears to be rock in one spot, turn it 90 degrees, it wont rock , like it seems slighlty bent, could this be my problem? remember, these are hollow axles. I did try to loose the front axle without loosening the pinch bolt once, I could have mucked it up?
 
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Last Edit: 2014/11/14 09:24 By brianmac.
 
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#835007
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
help me here boys, throw me a dang bone..
how bout this, will an earlier year axle fit an 05, i found an old one in a box of parts, the hex end is smaller, but it looks to fit, ill try tomorrow. the parts fiche list them all years as the same part #4NK-25181-00-00 , the one in the parts box is solid, and not chromed also. WTF?
 
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#835028
jkden (User)
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
I can tell you that for axle related parts, any year will fit any year. I switched my cast wheels for spokes onto my '08 from a set from a guy who owned an '01. There was a switch in the brake pads over the years, but the axles, wheels discs and suspension parts have not changed between '99 and '08 at least...

Try the axle it won't hurt anything - also ensure the front forks are exactly the same height in the top triple tree - the top cap should be exactly flush with the top tree mount. If that fails, you may have to disassemble the front forks - roll the inner tube on a flat surface and very carefully watch to make sure the tube is not bent. If it is, you will notice a wobble as you roll it.

I noticed a small wobble hand's off as I adjusted my helmet once as I was slowly decelerating. It started small and slowly became bigger... stopped immediately as soon as I put my hands back on the bars. I have tried this several times to see if I could duplicate the problem but nothing.

The roadie front seems to be "neutrally stable" or even slightly negatively stable - that is, very light on the front but it has a slow divergent oscillation that makes it more flickable (if you can imagine a large stable cruiser like a Roadie "flickable" but it is not inherently totally stable.
 
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#835732
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
the axle in my parts box was solid, so it was probably the wrong one, so i ordered a new one, apparently, axle run out is measured with a dial indicator, and allowable is 0.008in, i can rock the axle on cast iron, so im thinkin it aint true. if i can detrmine it aint true without a dial, holy cow batman! its wrong.
 
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#835782
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
A couple of the suggestions about tires is a lot of BS.

(Are you running mixed brands front and rear? On rare occasion 2 different brands won’t “play well together”
Are you mixing bias-ply and radials? This is only OK if the radial is in the back>


I have ran a Avon radial on the front of my bike for 25k with 3 different bias ply brands on the rear. No problem what so ever. I have never had problems mixing brands of tires on any bikes I have owned in the past 50 years.
 
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#836904
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
What would bend and axle? if the bike was never wrecked?
i am getting ready to install new axle, can my forks be bending it?
The fork length is determined by the spring tension/preload, what if one of the forks is mucked, could that bend an axle, If i remember, one side of my fork oil was clean, the other side gray...
 
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#836926
jd750ace (User)
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
It would just about have to be a hit to bend that axle. The axle is tougher than the forks. That's substantial piece of steel, and hollow axles are stronger in all bearing and flex aspects than a solid axle. A solid is only stronger in tension, which is the least loaded axis in this case.
 
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#837946
brianmac (User)
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
went to China Freight and bought a dial inDICKator, axle was .012-.014 high and low spots in the middle , limit is 0.008 inches,
 
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#838440
brianmac (User)
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Re:shimmy at speed, tippy etc 3 Years, 2 Months ago  
OK, the bike rides straight now, that I changed out the axle, it still aint perfect, so i have to loosen and re-bounce the front end again, but finally it rides straight!!!!!!!!!!!! You all are saying the pipe axle is stronger than the solid, I say, yes, if it is designed properly, but this bike never hit nothing, except the stop on a bike lift, so why is it bent?????????
 
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