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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes!
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TOPIC: Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes!
#882513
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
takehikes wrote:
My advice if you go pumpless is also go to a 42. Simplifies everything...dump the pump, slap on the 42 and ride.

Float level would have to be different pump versus pumpless, good write up and glad you are running down your gremlins.


Yeah like we all have $300.00 laying around In my case that would be $600.00 as I need one for her bike & one for my bike
 
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#882570
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
Doc_V wrote..."I still have some fine tuning and re-jetting to do [now that I've got the fuel level in the float bowl correct] but I plan to write a comprehensive explanation of the process that will include "all" the necessary steps and procedures in detail. And most importantly, a *measurable* spec for setting the float correctly."
 
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#882591
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
Doc, I went though this last year. I tried setting the float level, but than ended up setting the fuel level first off the bike (was cleaning and rejetting carb) than checked the fuel level on bike because someone told me it wouldn't be the same as on the bench. Mine checked out ~5mm above flange as per the updated manual for the 04-07 1700's. Here's a post you may have seen.
http://roadstarclinic.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,187/func,view/id,726958/catid,12/limit,10/limitstart,0/#726873
 
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Last Edit: 2015/04/30 21:42 By RRSRoadstar1700.
 
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#882593
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
Ok Doc_V. Let me know what you think. Here's my fuel level compared to the float set to Odo's method. I checked multiple times, cycled the key, moved the hose up and down. It settled at the bowl mating surface every time.

But then I ran the motor for a few seconds, moved the hose up and down, shut it down, and ran again for a few sec. After that it was 2-3 mm above the seam like in this pic. Click the pic below for a bigger view. The hash marks are at 1mm.



According to the spec, I should be at 4-5 mm, so I'm maybe 1-2.5 mm too low, correct? From what you've been doing, how much would you adjust the float level in my pic to raise the fuel level by just 1-2mm? Probably less than a 1mm adjustment to the float. Doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd probably over shoot it anyway.

So maybe I just got lucky with Odo's method. But it seems my results to lend some credence to it. Do 100's of them like the article said and I think he could be pretty consistent with it. At least close enough. How far out of spec does it need to be before it causes a problem?
 
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Last Edit: 2015/04/30 22:15 By Tykes_Place.
 
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#882599
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
Yes you are right about Yamaha not having the actual measurement in print.
As far as the carb laying on its side.... That was because some floats used to be made entirely of brass and the weight of the float on the float pin could depress that valve unless the carb and float were laying on its side.

When the black plastic float was introduced the float was NOT heavy enough that it would depress the float even when upside down.
(You can verify that easily). The first HONDA floats were actually made from cork and painted with some kind of fuel proof clear paint.
Those floats could and did get fuel inside them and would alter the function.

I applaud your efforts to get an actual float measurement for the benefit of all.
 
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Last Edit: 2015/04/30 22:41 By LuckyDon.
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#882609
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
The quick answer is... From the top of the float seam: 5.25mm for the float equals right about 5mm fuel level.

...I say "about" it's because it's really difficult to get a clear view with the carb on the bike. Perhaps someone else can try it and post their results. Also, if you're looking up from the bottom of the carb, like I had to in order to see the fuel level, be sure to compensate in your head for angle of view... It can be a little deceiving.

Tykes, it's hard to tell from that photo, but was the tube at the very corner of the carb? If so, your's looks pretty damn close. 4mm is within spec. If the tube was closer to that square nub in the foreground, the reading will be off because the carb slopes, which would mean you're actually closer to 3mm.

In this photo I used the butt end of the digital calipers set at 5.25mm (Click here for larger view)



I measured, opposite side of the carb from the ODO method, because it doesn't require you to remove the idle control cable. [Both sides were measured for accuracy.]

Since the bottom of the carb slants downward, toward the outside of the bike, you have to measure at the *inner most* rear corner to get an accurate reading.

Measure here:


In the photo above, the left side would be the intake manifold and the right side would be the air filter.

Photo for orientation reference.


And a little tip to help make measuring the fuel level in the float bowl easier; this flange is exactly 5mm. So the fuel should be even with or just *barely* below the top of the flange.



As for running the motor, the first time I measured, I started the motor just to see what would happen... With the motor running, the fuel level drops appox 5mm or so. But as soon as I turned the motor off, the fuel came back up to the original starting level.

Hope this helps guys.

P.S. Most manuals tell you to measure the float from the highest point in the middle of the float, but measuring from the seam is much easier with the tools most of us have to work with. The first time I did it I just put a piece of tape at 5mm across the bottom of a ruler... that is until I remembered I had digital calipers....
 
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Last Edit: 2015/05/01 01:04 By Doc_V.
 


It\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s been lots of fun guys... Thank you Gram and catch you all on the other site.
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#882629
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
Doc_V are these instructions for running with stock pump or pumpless? I didn't see how your bike is set up. Great write up!!!
 
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#882630
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
Thats a good pic but this is also the point I was trying to make yesterday when I was challenged on the methods of setting the floats. Here is what the float looks like with the other methods. Compare them to your pic above. If there is any difference I'm sure it it some small of a difference that it is still well within the spec of 4-5mm. If you set it to the ODO method and had a problem the IMO you did something wrong. This first pic is the method from your video and it come out to be the same as the ODO method. Both look like your pic after setting it with the tube.
 
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#882631
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
ODO method

Scott, Yamaha changed their spec from 2-3mm below the seam(that apparently worked for some time) to 4-5mm above the seam. That is up to a 8mm change and it still works. Now you guys are splitting hairs but you insist that the tube is the only way to do it even though the pics above show that the methods all give the same result. Closer than the 8mm change that all worked. As I said in another post I'm sure that the ODO method was derived from just locating 2 reference points(on a properly adjusted float)on the carb body to make it easier for members to get it right. The method in the video is also kind of a universal method that can be used on any carb (even my lawn mower). I'm also hopeful that before the ODO method was put into the tech articles that the adim that approves the tech articles verified that this procedure was appropriate for members to follow. All 3 methods will work, to me it's just a matter of what is the easiest for each person to do/follow. IMO keeping in mind that there was up to an 8mm change I think so long as you are within those perimeters the bike will run without much if any indication of a improperly adjusted float depending on your mods and driving habits. Your bike with no mods (intake or exhaust)and riding easy would probably run just fine staying within the original specs from Yamaha. A bike with intake/exhaust mods and ridden hard would likely need to go to the higher level of the spec.
 
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Last Edit: 2015/05/01 06:54 By davej.
 
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#882690
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Re:WOW what a difference *proper* float level makes! 2 Years, 10 Months ago  
This is a great thread !! I have learned more about float levels !! Great pics everyone ! Question...someone said earlier that a low float level will cause a vibration. What parts actually vibrate ?
 
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