Thankyou Scott for your cam break in info I am ready to get my bike together again tomorow and i will be riding it rain small hail or shine once it is going again then i will come home put some mobil 1 v-twin in and ride it untill i can't feel my legs or i need fuel then ride sum more!
Once again thanks for your post you have saved me from having to go through thiss again down the track.

B L U E wrote:
I'm Using Shell Rotella 15w40 non synthetic, I hope it meets the correct ZDDP levels.....

+1

Scottw, Thank you for all it info and it is right.
all oil not the same after a lot of looking I found
that out. With that said I guess let the ones who ride
deside for them self. Again thanks for all the info.

Bo1 wrote:
Scottw, Thank you for all it info and it is right.
all oil not the same after a lot of looking I found
that out. With that said I guess let the ones who ride
deside for them self. Again thanks for all the info.

===============

BO1,thanks for the support!

Scott

Wrongway wrote:
B L U E wrote:
I'm Using Shell Rotella 15w40 non synthetic, I hope it meets the correct ZDDP levels.....

+1
==================

Old thread but will ans this anyway because i have seen some guys posting here in RSC are still running std dino rotella 15-40 in thier R*'s when today theirs better choices avail these days.


Well ther's not really enough zddp protection but its very close,1200ppm zddp is what i'd conside cutoof min zddp lvl for safe ft protection with stock R* and the newer CJ rated std dino rotella 15-40 had approx 1100-1150ppm zddp.


So its realy marginal ft cam protection but its a lot better then std pass car/truck oil thats got 800-900ppm zddp thats flat out NG.

If you want to run diesel oil chevrons delo 15-40 that a fleet gas/diesel motor oil still has 1300ppm zddp (Verified thru testing and mfg's website) so is ok to use.

Just be aware this oil has small amount of friction mods in it that can in some cases (but not all)
lead to clutch slippage.

Rotella 5-40 full syn has 1300ppm zddp perf their tech line when i asked but also has fric mods too.

scott

Where can I find the ppm level in any certain brand of motor oil ?
I use a "V-twin specific" oil here at the shop, but I can't find any such info on the container.

Thought since this thread was resurected from almost 2 yrs ago i though i'd add more up to date info from waht a few more flat tappet cam & oil mfg's had to say about the importatnce of proper zddp lvl when it comes to FT cam protection.

Proper ZDDP lvl isnt everything when it comes to ft apps but none the less a proper zddp lvl's improtant & required for proper breakin then post breakin for a long normal srv'c life too.

Read the additional info from what the experts in the biz have to say and then make your own conclusion regaurdless of what anyone lese has to say.

As for me,i agree 100% with what the experts have to say which is why i run oil thats properly formulated for air cooled v-twins running FT cams.

Heres the additonal info to go along with the info from amsoil i posted ealier in ths thread .

All the nehsayer/non believers can read it & weep!!/LOL!!!!

Just busting !!!!

Scott

============================================

CRANE CAMS:

CRANE FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT RECOMMENDED BREAK-IN PROCEDURE
Due to the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet Camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes.
There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include, but are not limited to: (Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs racing) or a “race only” petroleum- based oil and include Crane Cams Part # 99003-1 Super Lube” additive. Do not use API rated “SL” or “SM” oil.

CAUTION: We do not recommend the use of synthetic oils for “break-in”. Prior to installing the camshaft and lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil, as listed above. The oil filter should also be changed at this time. Proper flat tappet camshaft break-in starts with the cam installation and includes the following steps:

================================================== ================

Comp Cams:

Subject: Flat Tappet Camshaft Failures (Hydraulic & Solid/Mechanical)
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of premature camshaft
failure; here’s how you can protect your engine!

Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been on the rise recently and not just with one brand or type of camshaft. In almost every case, the hardness or taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are completely unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality control. Changes in today’s oil products and “advancements” in internal engine configurations have contributed to a harsher environment for the camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in.

Engine Oil Selection
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of
engine oil. Simply put, today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes in the oil have only made life tougher on your flat tappet camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of important anti-wear additives such as zinc and phosphorus, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend oil with the proper level of “ZDDP”, Zinc Dialkyl Dithiosphosphate additive fortification.

Recent market trends and misinformation have led to a new and adverse side effect known as “Overloading on ZDDP”. When overloading on ZDDP, the additive can actually cause blocking of other important additives, such as friction modifiers or detergent agents. It is imperative that the ZDDP level is carefully specified and blended to correct concentrations.

Engine Oils, Supplements, & Additives
Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated upon installation will
guarantee that they are protected during the critical start-up of your newly-built engine. COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (COMP Cams® Part #153), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. COMP Cams® also has a line of Break-In Oils (COMP Cams® Part #1590 [10w30] and #1595 [20w50]) which have a proprietary formula that includes the proper amount of critical additives, including ZDDP (Zinc& Phosphorus), Molybdenum, detergents and high grade base oil to give you the most optimumoil for the break-in and long-term running of all your purposefully chosen performance enginecomponents. If you have a preferred oil with which you feel comfortable, we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Break-In Oil Additive (COMP Cams® Part #159) duringbreak-in.

COMP Cams®
3406 Democrat Rd. * Memphis, TN 38118
Phone: 1-800-999-0853 * Fax: (901) 366-1807
www.compcams.com
Part #255

Subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This proprietary blend of anti-wear ZDDP fortification, anti-fiction Molybdenum, and extreme pressure additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been forced to remove from off-theshelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy” you can buy, and are the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.
================================================== =====

MOBIL-1'S ANSWER TO OLD SCHOOL FT CAM'D MOTOR OIL REQUIREMENTS FROM THIER WEBSITE.

Heres an example from Mobil oil website question section on what they rec for a high perf ft cam app like your avg old school sbc with a high perf ft cam.

BTW,the 15w-50 nascar endorsed syn oil the Mobil-1 tech is reffering to below has a decent 1300ppm zddp per mobil-1 website and also note they/Mobil-1 didnt rec a much thinner 5-30 or 10-30 grade SN rated oil with a much lower zddp lvl for the hi perf FT cam app in question i cut & pasted from the Mobil-1 website which is because its not best choice in Mobil-1's opinon for that app.

So read the info i patsed below and then make you own choice from there weather to use low zddp lvl SN rated oils in your hi perf ft cam apps as long as said oil with good zddp lvl also has a good quality base stock oil & additive pkg to back up the proper zddp lvl to work together collectively as a strong team to better protect a hi perf FT cam'd motor.

Scott


Ask Mobil

Oil for a Modified 70’s Camaro

Ask Your Stickiest Question. . . Or ask us something you’ve always wanted to know about using our products. We’ll sort through all the submissions and present the best questions to our automotive experts. We'll share the questions and their answers here.

Question:

Oil for a Modified 70’s Camaro
Everyone seems to have an opinion and your chart does not go back to 1970. I just bought a 1970 Camaro highly modified 400 Chevy small block. The car does not get driven much - only to car shows and the drag strip a couple times a year. What is the best oil to use because these motors tend to have heat issues. It has a " flat tappet cam ". I want max protection and have used your products for years but not synthetics. Thanks for info.
-- Dennis Boyd, Lexington, KY

Answer:
For your Camaro, we would recommend Mobil 1™ 15W-50 synthetic motor oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 is a higher viscosity synthetic oil that delivers a thick oil film for protection of high performance engines. Mobil 1 15W-50 is recommended for older valve trains like the highly loaded flat tappets used in your Camaro. These types of engines benefit from the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP) in that oil normally not required in newer generation vehicles.
==================================================

Brad Penn:

The Brad Penn® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP – zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1® oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1® oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring “metal wetting” characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils are 100% Made in the USA.
==================================================
Scott,

The ILSAC requirement demands that you are only allowed to have max of 800ppm of ZDDP in energy conserving SM, SN & newest GF-5 motor oils, which are your 10W30 and lower viscosities.

As you can see the Mobil1 15W-50 syn is also API "SN" but we are allowed to formulate it with as much ZDDP in the formulation (1300ppm) for FT cam use without issue because it is not an energy conserving motor oil.

So to answer your question, it is never a good idea to use an ILSAC rated SM-SN-GF-5 motor oil (with 800ppm zddp) for flat tappet cammed engines.

-- Thank you for choosing ExxonMobil products.
-MJ

chromepony wrote:
Where can I find the ppm level in any certain brand of motor oil ?
I use a "V-twin specific" oil here at the shop, but I can't find any such info on the container.
=============
Just about no oil mfg lists the zddp lvl on thier contaner,only one i'd seen do that was spectro oil on ther motor guard series oil specifically mfg's for old school muscle car or classic casrs /trucks running Ft cams.

Thier zddp lvls stated on the contaner is 1800ppm which is max lvl i'd run because more then that can run into over dosing which can cause issues too,too much of a good thing isnt always good either.

Heres the link to it if you want to chk out the oil,they also mfg decent motorcycle/v-twin specific oil avail in mult visc and mult types too like std dino/semi blend/full syn.

Anyway,if you tell me the brand i may have it because i have a hardcopy list of 18 bike oils test results on hand.

But if i dont have your bike oil test results the mfg should tell you if you ask them in their online tech section or call their tech line asking for the zddp/Zinc & Phos lvl.

Look for a min of 1200ppm zddp as safe lvl for a stock cam'd R*, but for a little added comfort lvl i prefer 1300-1400ppm for a min zddp lvl.

When tested Mobil-1 v-twin syn 20-50 had 1700ppm zddp and amsoil mcv syn 20-50 had 1400ppm zddp which are the oils i run in my R* after the motor was broken in on the oil supplied & installed by the Yami dealer that it was initially fired up on in the shop when prepping for sale.

Scott

Yep if you want to pass the time on a cold snowy day just start a discussion about oil or tires. Sure will be glad when the weather breaks and all we have to talk about is THE RIDE

scottw wrote:
[quote]chromepony wrote:
Where can I find the ppm level in any certain brand of motor oil ?
I use a "V-twin specific" oil here at the shop, but I can't find any such info on the container.
=============
Just about no oil mfg lists the zddp lvl on thier contaner,only one i'd seen do that was spectro oil on ther motor guard series oil specifically mfg's for old school muscle car or classic casrs /trucks running Ft cams.

Thier zddp lvls stated on the contaner is 1800ppm which is max lvl i'd run because more then that can run into over dosing which can cause issues too,too much of a good thing isnt always good either.

Heres the link to it if you want to chk out the oil,they also mfg decent motorcycle/v-twin specific oil avail in mult visc and mult types too like std dino/semi blend/full syn.

Anyway,if you tell me the brand i may have it because i have a hardcopy list of 18 bike oils test results on hand.

But if i dont have your bike oil test results the mfg should tell you if you ask them in their online tech section or call their tech line asking for the zddp/Zinc & Phos lvl.

Look for a min of 1200ppm zddp as safe lvl for a stock cam'd R*, but for a little added comfort lvl i prefer 1300-1400ppm for a min zddp lvl.

When tested Mobil-1 v-twin syn 20-50 had 1700ppm zddp and amsoil mcv syn 20-50 had 1400ppm zddp which are the oils i run in my R* after the motor was broken in on the oil supplied & installed by the Yami dealer that it was initially fired up on in the shop when prepping for sale.

Scottntainer.</span>
=============
Just about no oil mfg lists the zddp lvl on thier contaner,only one i'd seen do that was spectro oil on ther motor guard series oil specifically mfg's for old school muscle car or classic casrs /trucks running Ft cams.

Thier zddp lvls stated on the contaner is 1800ppm which is max lvl i'd run because more then that can run into over dosing which can cause issues too,too much of a good thing isnt always good either.

Heres the link to it if you want to chk out the oil,they also mfg decent motorcycle/v-twin specific oil avail in mult visc and mult types too like std dino/semi blend/full syn.

Anyway,if you tell me the brand i may have it because i have a hardcopy list of 18 bike oils test results on hand.

But if i dont have your bike oil test results the mfg should tell you if you ask them in their online tech section or call their tech line asking for the zddp/Zinc & Phos lvl.

Look for a min of 1200ppm zddp as safe lvl for a stock cam'd R*, but for a little added comfort lvl i prefer 1300-1400ppm for a min zddp lvl.

When tested Mobil-1 v-twin syn 20-50 had 1700ppm zddp and amsoil mcv syn 20-50 had 1400ppm zddp which are the oils i run in my R* after the motor was broken in on the oil supplied & installed by the Yami dealer that it was initially fired up on in the shop when prepping for sale.

Scott[/quote
Thanks, Scott...PM sent.