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Re:Power Commander?
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TOPIC: Re:Power Commander?
#448370
River (User)
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Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
Ok, so a person decides they want to put a power commander on their FI bike.
You go to their website and download the closest map to your bike.
There is no way of knowing you are still not running lean without a dyno run or two or three or you put on a good wide band AFR.

That's at least $200.00 bucks right there, now you are into this thing for between 500.00 and 600.00 bucks and the whole crock of crap still may not get you where you want to be.

The Power Commander rep says, "Oh yeah, even if you change your air cleaner to a BAK its going to run lean, heat up yer engine and cause you to marry your ugly sister in law who's got the clap."

I mean all this crap is enough to make you want to eat a keg of nails and crap a full grown horse shod with titanium horse shoes.
 
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#448377
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
Ok I am not going to get into specifics as I am sure there are some members that have heard my nightmare with this particular item. But I will say yes you can download all the maps install the BAK and "hope" that it will work and play with the settings to try and get it close but for what i have invested in my now dust collecting unit that sits on top of my tool chest on top of my sockets. All tolled. There would have been a good downpayment on a Streetglide or a Roadglide
It never worked correctly from the time it was installed. Oh by the way this was the 2nd one the first one when installed the bike wouldnt start so sent it back and was replaced with a new unit
My money will now be spent on the newer Cobra with NO maps to download.
Just my 2 cents worth for what it is worth. Read and listen to the guys that are using these new units and from what i have heard they r great
 
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#448386
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
From what I've read it looks like the Cobra Fi2000R O2 is the best one unless the bike is in California and then there's another model for that state.

The Dynojet unit instructs you to disconnect the O2 sensors and I've always read that that causes problems like weeds1966 mentions. Without O2 sensors I doubt one would ever get the thing adjusted to his satisfaction. Nothing can adjust a fuel injection system as finely as an O2 sensor.

From what I can see you wouldn't need to spend any dyno time with the Cobra unit. There are 3 pots that can be adjusted for different exhaust/air filter/engine changes if needed.
 
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#448389
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
OK, I just have to ask a dumb question, because I'm still just not getting it...

Are you guys talking about adding a Cobra or Power Commander for better performance?

You've got 100 guys that'll tell you an FI bike runs just fine on stock programming, even after the mods (-AIS, exhaust and intake). No signs of any lean condition based on the plugs. Slightly "leaner", maybe... But, I haven't heard of anybody burning up a motor if they're not running a fuel processor.

So, again. Why? Does an FI bike running better with one?

I'm not looking for a debate on which way is right or wrong. I just don't know why this is such a big deal...


Rich
 
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#448395
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
Man, your post is enough for me to decide to stay with my carb, even with all the issues i had to dial in the new HSR42, I love the performance, sound and ability to mechanically change a jet or screw to tune er up to ANYTHING I want to add to my baby.

I only know 3 guys with the R* FI personally and they all ride it bone stock.

Steven
 
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#448417
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
Rich, I talked to Yamaha about removing the AIS and they informed me that removing the AIS causes the FI system to lean the mixture at idle and cruise. The reason is that the computer is adjusting for the extra air from the AIS and without it the computer adjusts the mixture to the same lean setting it would see if the AIS was connected. For example: if the computer is expecting a .35 volt average from the O2 with the AIS connected and knows that is actually .45 volt before the extra air is injected then it'll use that lean signal from the O2 to keep the mixture correct. Without the AIS though it'll adjust for the same lean signal from the O2 except now the mixture actually is lean. From what I gather the computer doesn't know whether or not the AIS is injecting air in the exhaust.

Seems like they would have programmed the computer to know if the AIS was disconnected but since disconnecting it doesn't generate a fault light I guess they didn't. I'll look in the manual today to see if any kind of memory code is generated.

Given all of that, it seems that the only way to get the mixture back on track without the AIS is an aftermarket controller that adjust the fuel mixture for about 14.7:1 (.45 volt) at idle and cruise. Running one of the aftermarket controllers with the AIS connected would likely result in a very rich mixture unless they had someway to compensate.

Edit: The example I used was just that, an example. I don't know exactly what the actual values are.
 
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Last Edit: 2012/01/04 07:23 By texasscott1.
 


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#448427
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
Scott:

Thanks. You'll probably agree though, "leaner" doesn't actually mean "lean condition". Right? Go with me on this for a second...

For whatever reason, it's always assumed that the stock mixture is optimal and shouldn't +- one way or the other (in minor increments) or you'll die an immediate, painful death... For performance vehicles (high compression, supercharged or turbo charged), that's probably closer to true due to the fact that they've squeezed them already for optimal performance and HP/Torque numbers. The Road Star isn't a Ferrari...

But, it's common knowledge that most manufacturers will slightly pad their mixtures rich, especially on a historically Consumer-modded vehicles. They'd want to insure MTBF is as long as possible. If their configuration is too stringent, that window is shortened and could reflect on them as poor quality / poor reliability.

My point is; Based on looking at my plugs, and how many report the same experience, these bikes don't seem to be running into a "lean condition" by simply removing the AIS. "Leaner", probably. But, you and I know that's not always a bad thing...

I'm not saying I'm an expert and this experience is mine only(Use at your own risk). But, is the point of the fuel processors is to fatten up the mixture to get it back to the original factory specs? Is it for performance? Is it because some think they just need it? Or, is it just a cool mod to say they have? Remember, I put a remote control starter on a Bobber. So, I'm ok with cool...

I actually knew a SuperBike tuner that ran Lightnings with us that I can probably still pose this question to and get a real answer. I'll let you know what he says.


Rich
 
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Last Edit: 2012/01/04 09:04 By TampaSVT.
 

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#448459
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
I have a power commander on my Ultra, I added it to make the bike run richer and cooler. I love mine. sorry to hear you have had issues. knocked my gas mileage down some, but I am happy with it. I have not tried to install one on a Roadie.
 
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#448465
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
texasscott1 wrote:
The Dynojet unit instructs you to disconnect the O2 sensors and I've always read that that causes problems like weeds1966 mentions.I read my instructions many times, and then after you unplug the o2 sensors you are supposed to plug them into the harness supplied with the power commander. Like I have said my unit is 50 state legal and you can't get there from here without the o2's installed. If anybody wants to pay for my Dyno time I will happily allow my bike to be used as a test mule for different pipe and air cleaner combinations. As long as I get to keep the combination that I find most pleasing! I'm joking about the last part. I have two air filter setups, stock and the RC-1624 K&N. I have three exhaust systems. The Samson flair pipes(Straight through) stock, and the Khrome Werks slash cuts that are in one of the photos I have on photobucket and I believe are displayed on my avatar. Payment could be made directly to the dealership that would do the testing. I'll show up with bells on and parts in hand.
http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy348/ahamay1/Ahamays%20pipes/
 
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Last Edit: 2012/01/04 11:47 By ahamay.
 
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#448468
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Re:Power Commander? 6 Years, 1 Month ago  
Rich, leaner is what I was told. How much leaner could only be determined with an EGA. You wouldn't even have to put it on a dyno.

By the way, I looked in the shop manual and there is no code listed for the AIS not working.

As for fattening up the mixture it's my understanding that air cooled engines are best when running right around 14.7 during idle and cruise.
 
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Last Edit: 2012/01/04 11:44 By texasscott1.
 


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