I have some hard evidence... Consumer Reports polled their entire readership for bike owners to create a brand frequency of repair report. I have it. The very worst, by a pretty long shot was BMW, but right out there, and not too much better was H-D MoCo.

There was a big space between those 2 brands and all the rest... the good ones. And, the very best of them all, at #1, was good ole Yamamamma!

O, and my best riding bud had a Harley... once. Swore he'd never own another ever again! He rides a R* along with me.

Questcap wrote:
No thanks... I'd really rather have something that doesn't break, or require really expensive routine maintenance every 15k miles, or so.
What's so expensive and breaks that often?
To buy my HD cost maybe $1000 more than building a R* to look like one.

Messer wrote:
Questcap wrote:
No thanks... I'd really rather have something that doesn't break, or require really expensive routine maintenance every 15k miles, or so.
What's so expensive and breaks that often?
To buy my HD cost maybe $1000 more than building a R* to look like one.

+1 I've got a riding buddy with over 100k on his evo with no major problems

Tug wrote:
+1 I've got a riding buddy with over 100k on his evo with no major problems

I don't understand the Harley bashing at all. Seriously.

I had a 2000 RS that I couldn't stand riding. The thing damn near vibrated my teeth out. I posted about it here several times. Being persistent though, I bought an 09 RS late last winter/early spring this year. Nice bike but I really didn't care for the FI. Sold it a little while back. Waiting for winter to buy an earlier carbed model. Asking prices are way too inflated now.

Decided early spring that I would purchase my 1st Harley after 40+ years of riding. After tons of research, I decided on a late EVO Road King. Some of the best dependable bikes Harley ever produced. Got a carbed model which is what I preferred. Other than the initial bad wheel bearing in the front wheel, the bike has been rock solid. I would recommend an EVO to anyone. I bitched about her early on but just may keep her much longer than originally expected.

I have it up for sale currently along with some other bikes, plus the other bikes I have sold this year as I am considering buying my first ever brand new bike off the showroom floor. The new Venture.

Almost every bike I have put up for sale has sold but the Harley hasn't yet. So, in the meantime, I have been putting more miles on her and she has been growing on me. She's a nice bike. Super smooth on the back roads. Very easy to handle in all situations. I have to give credit where credit is due. The twin cam Harleys however, are a whole different story. They are probably the worst engineered engine ever produced in the industry. Especially the early ones.

Back to the OP. It's not just Harley down on sales and it's not just new bikes. The "used" bikes I sold this year sold from anywhere from $1,500.00 to $7,000.00. Almost everyone sold was from people that took out loans to pay for them. I only had 1 cash sale. Same is happening in car sales, new and used. A good friend of mine has a used car business and he can't give them away. Everything he does sell is financed.

Bottom line: Average working people don't have no money no more. Period! Those days have sailed. If they can't afford a used car, what the hell makes anyone think they could even think about a motorcycle. Until the economy turns for working class people (if that ever happens) big ticket item sales will continue to decline.

Even 10 years ago, I was able to flip bikes for a decent profit in a relatively quick turn around time. Now the profit margin is smaller and I sit on them for much a longer time.

Well, tell me if this changed... as I'm sure I don't know. I've been an R* rider for 10 years now. But, at one time H-D required a rather pricey 15k service that involved the opening up of the cam drive operation to inspect the chains and guides, as they used to have a guide failure issue that took out the entire engine.

H-D studied the matter and found the chain manufacturer wasn't changing out their chain plate cutting dyes often enough, and as the stamper dye got duller, the edges of the chain link plates got unacceptably sharper. These 'later' made chains were slowly cutting through the guide material, causing them to fail.

The solution? Change the stamping dyes more often... not, lets equip them all with gear drive.

Did that actually solve the problem... I don't know. Do they still require the pricey cam drive inspection as a part of their service to be done every 15k miles?

And, why call it bashing, when I said there's some hard evidence? This is the latest motorcycle reliability report from CR. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/04/who-makes-the-most-reliable-motorcycle/index.htm

According to the above link, based on some thousands of respondents, the H-D is statistically 136% more likely to bite you than our Star. That's the difference between 11% and 26% from the table in the article.

The cam shoes have not been a issue for a long time. I though it was still the vase myself till about a year ago when cike and slothy both told that was on a older motor. Newer motors dont need those looked at for 75k miles or better now.

Yamaha has been the most dependable brand for years now going off the reports "but" i do wonder if that report is skewed because i feel more hd riders wont work on their own bike. Like i said my one gripe is they are a pain in the arse to work on for a lot of things. Some things are simpler though.

smokescreens wrote:
The cam shoes have not been a issue for a long time. I though it was still the vase myself till about a year ago when cike and slothy both told that was on a older motor. Newer motors dont need those looked at for 75k miles or better now.

Yamaha has been the most dependable brand for years now going off the reports "but" i do wonder if that report is skewed because i feel more hd riders wont work on their own bike. Like i said my one gripe is they are a pain in the arse to work on for a lot of things. Some things are simpler though.
Don't forget the percentage difference of HDs owned compared to roadstars

Messer wrote:
smokescreens wrote:
The cam shoes have not been a issue for a long time. I though it was still the vase myself till about a year ago when cike and slothy both told that was on a older motor. Newer motors dont need those looked at for 75k miles or better now.

Yamaha has been the most dependable brand for years now going off the reports "but" i do wonder if that report is skewed because i feel more hd riders wont work on their own bike. Like i said my one gripe is they are a pain in the arse to work on for a lot of things. Some things are simpler though.
Don't forget the percentage difference of HDs owned compared to roadstars

The reports are based upon percentages of what is made and not quantity, but all said and the average age of motorcyclists is rising. I know very few people young and old that do there own maintenance. I wish I got a picture, but there was a group of about 10-15 GROM riders. What is "cool" is changing and economics has a part, but ultimately it is priorities. Cars can get great gas mileage and well other than my daughter at 19 that would like a motorcycle, most of her friends find them too dangerous.

I've noticed this in the sportbike scene also. Unrelated to this topic sort of. Used to see younger guys on sportbikes all the time (when I was that age. Late 90's-early 00's). I remember wanting nothing out of life except the sweetest R1 I could get my hands on. Always used to see small groups of guys riding together. It's pretty rare to see a sportbike out on the road around here nowadays. Don't know if it's the high cost of owning one (insurance ) or if all these snowflakes are just satisfied with the latest video game or what.