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TOPIC: Re:Firing on one cylinder
#1020907
ctkog (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
davej wrote:
Why would the rest of the engine be damaged??? Just because someone thru out some hypothetical "Maybe the tech honed the cylinders" means nothing. Especially chasing your tail. How about this "maybe the tech didn't hone the cylinders and the cam is just bad" You are correct you don't need to remove the cover to look down the hole to see a bad cam and you are also correct when you say that the cam is bad when finding a lifter with a hole in the bottom. Now the cover has to come off to change the cam so take it off read the manual and change the cam. Not really that big of a deal. Now you may find an engine for about the price of a cam set but after shipping my guess is that just fixing what is wrong (the cam) will be cheaper and easier.

I donít think we disagree on much Dave. I mentioned from the start cam and lifters. He was just having trouble with a compression check since the valves canít open with an eaten lifter, so the leak down test was mentioned by Texas as an alternative. A leakdown check is never a bad idea. I think a cheap tester is only around $29 and it can tell you an awful lot prior to throwing time and money into something which it doesnít sound like Paladin had much of either. But yeah cam and lifters should do the trick.
 
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#1020936
Paladin (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
There's been a little bit of friendly discussion about the benefits of doing/not doing this or doing/not doing that. I just want everyone to know how much I appreciate all your suggestions and willingness to help. If nothing else, I'm getting an invaluable education on things I've never thought about or information I've never even had access to that may become very handy in the future. On top of reading through your suggestions I've been doing my own research, watching you tube videos to familiarize myself with exactly what's involved and how to do the things that have been recommended, as well as doing quite a bit of reading up both in the Service Manual and in other places. I'm still going to do the compression and leakdown tests even if for nothing else but to learn how to do them. And who knows, I might make some interesting discoveries. Hopefully it all boils down to just a cam and a lifter that need to be replaced, but by doing all these things, I'll be more comfortable with and more knowledgeable about my ride.

I've been reading and re-reading the service manual in the section about removing and re-installing the camshafts. I don't really understand everything that's being said, but I'll keep reading and re-reading and eventually, I hope the light bulb will go on. Just to make sure I'm understanding what needs to be done correctly though, there are two camshafts, one for the front cylinder and one for the rear cylinder. Since the intake lifter on the front cylinder is trashed, most likely the camshaft is as well and it's pretty much granted it needs to be replaced. With installing a new camshaft there, I need to install both lifters so they will both mate up to the new cam lobes surfaces. Here's my main question: Since there's no evidence of a problem with the rear cylinder, I do not need to replace the camshaft and lifters there even though I'm replacing the camshaft & lifters on the front cylinder, correct?
 
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#1020950
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
The cam comes as a set(both) All you really have to do is roll the engine over until the 2 marks line up. Then look at the big gear and you will see a hole drill between the 2 halfs of the gear. find a drill bit that fits snuggly into the hole and put it in there before removing that gear or the cams. it is spring loaded and if you don't pin it,it will be difficult to reinstall. Reinstall in reverse order with the marks lined up and use assembly lube(should come with the cams.) keep the manual handy to aid with any other issues that may arise. Whatever you do, "DO NOT" roll over the engine without the cams installed
 
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#1020955
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
davej wrote:
The cam comes as a set(both) All you really have to do is roll the engine over until the 2 marks line up. Then look at the big gear and you will see a hole drill between the 2 halfs of the gear. find a drill bit that fits snuggly into the hole and put it in there before removing that gear or the cams. it is spring loaded and if you don't pin it,it will be difficult to reinstall. Reinstall in reverse order with the marks lined up and use assembly lube(should come with the cams.) keep the manual handy to aid with any other issues that may arise. Whatever you do, "DO NOT" roll over the engine without the cams installed

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot. The part that was confusing me in the manual was the part about counting teeth and writing numbers on the gear, etc. Just matching up the two holes makes it a lot easier and less worrisome that I might get something lined up wrong. Worst part now is having to take the valve cover/space/rocker arm/etc off the rear cylinder too so I can pull the pushrods/covers to be able to get those lifters out. i was hoping I could avoid that.

Just trying to get myself a parts list together before I get into this (and figure out how much money I need), so far it looks like I'm going to need:
1 set of cams $410
4 valve lifters $16
moly grease $?
8 various o-rings for the pushrod covers and lifter cases $42
couple of Gaskets for front and back of camshaft cover. $14
Anything else I'm likely to need?

In the manual on page 5-31 & 5-32 there's a bit of a disconnect. It shows the camshaft cover on, how to take out the bolts to remove the camshaft cover and then all of a sudden it's showing how to mic the camshafts to see if they're in spec. When you pull off the camshaft cover, do the cams just slide out at that point?

Probably enough questions for now Just bear in mind that this is my first time ever doing something like this and I just want to make sure I don't mess it up somehow.

I've read the manual twice again since I posted last night (the post you replied to) and just noticed that there was an instruction to align some kind of timing mark (page 5-18) somewhere while moving the pistons to TDC prior to removing the rocker arms/pushrods, etc. and I didn't do that so hopefully I haven't messed something up there....
 
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#1020956
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
I may have just found a used set of cams for $200 or so. Thoughts on used vs new in this situation? Funds are a problem so I'm inclined to find used if feasible. I'm assuming the new lifters would eventually seat to the used cams at some point.
 
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#1020961
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
Paladin wrote:
davej wrote:
The cam comes as a set(both) All you really have to do is roll the engine over until the 2 marks line up. Then look at the big gear and you will see a hole drill between the 2 halfs of the gear. find a drill bit that fits snuggly into the hole and put it in there before removing that gear or the cams. it is spring loaded and if you don't pin it,it will be difficult to reinstall. Reinstall in reverse order with the marks lined up and use assembly lube(should come with the cams.) keep the manual handy to aid with any other issues that may arise. Whatever you do, "DO NOT" roll over the engine without the cams installed

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot. The part that was confusing me in the manual was the part about counting teeth and writing numbers on the gear, etc. Just matching up the two holes makes it a lot easier and less worrisome that I might get something lined up wrong. Worst part now is having to take the valve cover/space/rocker arm/etc off the rear cylinder too so I can pull the pushrods/covers to be able to get those lifters out. i was hoping I could avoid that.

Just trying to get myself a parts list together before I get into this (and figure out how much money I need), so far it looks like I'm going to need:
1 set of cams $410
4 valve lifters $16
moly grease $?
8 various o-rings for the pushrod covers and lifter cases $42
couple of Gaskets for front and back of camshaft cover. $14
Anything else I'm likely to need?

In the manual on page 5-31 & 5-32 there's a bit of a disconnect. It shows the camshaft cover on, how to take out the bolts to remove the camshaft cover and then all of a sudden it's showing how to mic the camshafts to see if they're in spec. When you pull off the camshaft cover, do the cams just slide out at that point?

Probably enough questions for now Just bear in mind that this is my first time ever doing something like this and I just want to make sure I don't mess it up somehow.

I've read the manual twice again since I posted last night (the post you replied to) and just noticed that there was an instruction to align some kind of timing mark (page 5-18) somewhere while moving the pistons to TDC prior to removing the rocker arms/pushrods, etc. and I didn't do that so hopefully I haven't messed something up there....



You might want to look over some of the tech articles on cam removals. They probably will help and may clear up some gray areas in the manual instructions.

Here's one that covers a cam replacement in full. http://roadstarclinic.com/content/view/42/104/
 
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#1020965
Paladin (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
That's an outstanding article for sure. Written in language even I can understand
Thanks!
 
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#1020968
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
Paladin wrote:
I may have just found a used set of cams for $200 or so. Thoughts on used vs new in this situation? Funds are a problem so I'm inclined to find used if feasible. I'm assuming the new lifters would eventually seat to the used cams at some point.

Of course itís impossible to say youíre not going to have a problem with used cams. Obviously there is a risk over new. Just check them for clear signs of excess wear first and make sure they're cams from a 1700cc because the 1600 is different. I wouldnít use the lifters if they come with any.. like you planned go with new.. maybe HT 2011ís and be generous with the assembly lube, especially on the cam lobes.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/08/30 12:00 By ctkog.
 

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#1020969
Paladin (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
Ctkog wrote:
Paladin wrote:
I may have just found a used set of cams for $200 or so. Thoughts on used vs new in this situation? Funds are a problem so I'm inclined to find used if feasible. I'm assuming the new lifters would eventually seat to the used cams at some point.

Of course itís impossible to say youíre not going to have a problem with used cams. Obviously there is a risk over new. Just check them for clear signs of excess wear first and make sure they're cams from a 1700cc because the 1600 is different. I wouldnít use the lifters if they come with any.. like you planned go with new.. maybe HT 2011ís and be generous with the assembly lube, especially on the cam lobes.


Yeah the HT2011's are no big deal because I can buy them locally for $3.99 each - pretty cheap considering the best price I've found on the Yamaha ones is $36.95. The guy with the used cams bought them used himself and didn't end up needing them, I don't know where he's located so all I could do is ask him if visually they look decent and if he had checked them to see if they were to spec. Just waiting to hear back on that. I'd really rather do new, but at double the price and then some, it makes a big difference right now. Thanks.

PS - mine's a 1600...
 
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Last Edit: 2017/08/30 12:12 By Paladin.
 
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#1020970
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 5 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
Paladin wrote:
PS - mine's a 1600...

Sorry I was looking at your member since year!!
 
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