Not that I plan doing it anytime soon, but am trying to understand the effects of it.. I will use Doc and Gram as examples as they are the only 2 folks here that I know of that has done it.. I believe Doc achieved his by changing the clamps only, which as I understand it would shorten the trail..where as Gram on the other hand, did all his ateration in the neck, which I believe lengthens the trail.. they both achieved the same look for the most part.. and Doc's method would seem to be much more doable for the average guy..I guess my question is how do the two bikes differ in their handling characteristics?

Simply put ...

If you rake in the neck (cut the neck, increase the angle and weld back) the bike becomes a slut in the parking lot but rock solid at highways speeds. You should have Popeye arms.

If you rake in the trees (add raked trees) the bike becomes nervous at highway speeds.

Both ways will increase your turning radius.

Although you can somewhat 'fix' the faults of each the best way to to rake both the neck and the trees.

I have 6* raked trees for a total of 38*, 4" over forks. Wheelbase is about 72". Bike has a close to stock feeling but it takes more room to maneuver it.

Doc

flashback wrote:
Not that I plan doing it anytime soon, but am trying to understand the effects of it.. I will use Doc and Gram as examples as they are the only 2 folks here that I know of that has done it.. I believe Doc achieved his by changing the clamps only, which as I understand it would shorten the trail..where as Gram on the other hand, did all his ateration in the neck, which I believe lengthens the trail.. they both achieved the same look for the most part.. and Doc's method would seem to be much more doable for the average guy..I guess my question is how do the two bikes differ in their handling characteristics?

Well is Doc close by????

I DO have two degrees more rake than he does, so my little sled looks a hell of a lot better

The best way to think of trail and how it will effect you is to think of the caster wheels on furniture.

The farther away the wheel is from dead center below the trail point, the more it will want to follow the direction the bike is pointed in (once you have any appreciable speed). So the more trail you have the more it will "lock in" on direction. But this also causes a heaviness in the controls, so less responsive. At slow speeds its a lot to hang onto (like parking lots - no speed to cause the "lock in" effect) so requires more attention and diligence. At high speeds less problems with things like groove-grab on the freeway and actually a nice ride.

The closer you get to your trail point, the more responsive the control gets, but you don't to go too far as you need some trail to avoid problems like runaway high speed steering wobble and oversteering at high speeds.

Raking in the trees decreases trail, in the neck increases trail.

Best is to do both, and balance the trail back out. But I am happy with mine and I am sure Doc is with his too.

BTW... If your going to cut and rake the neck make sure you have someone who really knows what their doing. There are critical alignment issues and you clearly want a VERY good welding job

GRAM

Hmmmm..... Seems Doc gets to the point quicker than I do....

What he said...

GRAM

I type faster.

Or is it that I'm not as long-winded.

Doc

Ok, I'm long winded

GRAM

Here some info. Might help someone.

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/rake_and_trail.htm

Thanks guys I guess thats about it..Gram, are your forks 6" over since you have an extra 2 degrees? And Doc, how nervous is nervous? as I tend to lean your way as it would be easier for me to do on my own..Both your bikes have the basic look Im after, not too radical but enough to know it's there.. none of this is going to happen until after Christmas anyway,, so I have plenty of time to chew on it..

Rake at neck is 8 degrees and the forks are stock. So its really low. The guy who raked it lowered the neck (thus raising the bike) about 3/4" to try and offset, but it is still really low.

GRAM

GRAM wrote:
Rake at neck is 8 degrees and the forks are stock. So its really low. The guy who raked it lowered the neck (thus raising the bike) about 3/4" to try and offset, but it is still really low.

GRAM Really! I never would have guessed that from the pic.. yours is the third from the right I think..