Cqyqte wrote:
davej wrote:
01Roadstar_Messer wrote:
BikerRon wrote:
01Roadstar_Messer wrote:
Do these look OK?



Don't get much better than that. How many miles on them?
So they're ok? And I don't know on the milage on them

No they are not OK!!!! They show an extreme lean condition. That is why your pipes are Blue. On a fuel injected water cooled engine a spark plug will have a whiter porcelain but not quite as white as the one in the first pic. Problem is are bikes are not water cooled or all fuel injected. The plugs in my pic are exactly what they should look like at they AFR readings I quoted in my post.

The only thing on those plugs that look OK is the lack of wear on the center electrode. All that means is that they do not need to be replaced at this time.

http://roadstarclinic.com/images/fbfiles/images/spark_plug_post-fbdd7269c10413579546bb324f13e0de.jpg
These plugs are from my Bike set to a AFR of 13.5 idle and about 14- 14.5 AFR cruise. Not the best pic but I think you should get the idea of the proper color.

I find it amazing how someone can read a plug from a picture over the internet. To properly read whether a plug is displaying lean or rich tendencies requires one to be able to view the color of the porcelain cone just before it makes contact to the inner edge of the threaded metal jacket. With plugs in hand that requires a good light source and a magnifying glass to be able to read the band colors on the insulator cone deep down inside the threaded section. And from the two pictures provided accurately reading those plugs is extremely difficult. You will see from this link where to look and what you find is explained quite clearly. Todays fuels burn very cleanly and will fool you if you look at just the tip of the insulator tip, don't believe me read the article completely http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_spark_plugs.htm


Maybe you need to go clean his blue pipes the next time!!! And I can read the plugs over the internet as being lean when they are snow white.
This is a quote from your link
"Normal Condition
An engine's condition can be judged by the appearance of the spark plug's firing end. If the firing end of a spark plug is brown or light gray, the condition can be judged to be good and the spark plug is functioning optimally."
here is another quote from your link how are they doing this if the tip porcelain meas nothing?

"If you cannot perform this safely on a dyno, or at your local drag strip then take it to a shop. Use a fresh plug or one that has only a few passes on it. This works best in top gear or an upper gear on a slight uphill area. After running the engine at full throttle for about 8 to 10 seconds ( do not run up on the rev limiter as this will give a false reading of the plugs) do the following at the same time: pull in the clutch and stop the engine. DO NOT let the engine idle and DO NOT let the clutch out until the vehicle has come to a stop. Remove the spark plug and examine the INSULATOR (the porcelain) color. White is lean and black is rich. Best color is a tan to grayish-white. White means main jet is too small (lean) and black means main jet is too big (rich)."

Furthermore my "Internet read is only telling him that he has a lean condition" those plugs along with the fact that I already knew his pipes were "BLUE" is all I need to be very comfortable saying that his bike has a lean condition!!! I was not reading the plugs in all ranges as your link and you are suggesting. If you bothered to read my post I think it said something about not knowing exactly what is going on with his bike due to the 1 black plug and had a suggestion of where to start at checking for a intake manifold leak. Using your logic if I pull a set of plugs that are completely black I can't look at a pic of them and say that there is a rich condition even if the carbon is dripping off them. I still need to look down inside to do a read

The plugs in the pic that I posted are from my bike with an absolute Known AFR with having an AFR gauge. That is the color that should be shown on a air cooled motorcycle spark plug. I have been a mechanic for a living since 1974 and have been doing this stuff for a long time. I don't know what your skill level is but mine before I retired was Certified Master Mechanic Auto and Heavy Duty Truck and Journeyman Equipment Repair Specialist. The only reason I said "WAS" is because I'm retired and didn't pay to keep my all my Certs up to date when it's not needed.

davej wrote:
Cqyqte wrote:
davej wrote:
01Roadstar_Messer wrote:
BikerRon wrote:
01Roadstar_Messer wrote:
Do these look OK?



Don't get much better than that. How many miles on them?
So they're ok? And I don't know on the milage on them

No they are not OK!!!! They show an extreme lean condition. That is why your pipes are Blue. On a fuel injected water cooled engine a spark plug will have a whiter porcelain but not quite as white as the one in the first pic. Problem is are bikes are not water cooled or all fuel injected. The plugs in my pic are exactly what they should look like at they AFR readings I quoted in my post.

The only thing on those plugs that look OK is the lack of wear on the center electrode. All that means is that they do not need to be replaced at this time.

http://roadstarclinic.com/images/fbfiles/images/spark_plug_post-fbdd7269c10413579546bb324f13e0de.jpg
These plugs are from my Bike set to a AFR of 13.5 idle and about 14- 14.5 AFR cruise. Not the best pic but I think you should get the idea of the proper color.

I find it amazing how someone can read a plug from a picture over the internet. To properly read whether a plug is displaying lean or rich tendencies requires one to be able to view the color of the porcelain cone just before it makes contact to the inner edge of the threaded metal jacket. With plugs in hand that requires a good light source and a magnifying glass to be able to read the band colors on the insulator cone deep down inside the threaded section. And from the two pictures provided accurately reading those plugs is extremely difficult. You will see from this link where to look and what you find is explained quite clearly. Todays fuels burn very cleanly and will fool you if you look at just the tip of the insulator tip, don't believe me read the article completely http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_spark_plugs.htm


Maybe you need to go clean his blue pipes the next time!!! And I can read the plugs over the internet as being lean when they are snow white.
This is a quote from your link
"Normal Condition
An engine's condition can be judged by the appearance of the spark plug's firing end. If the firing end of a spark plug is brown or light gray, the condition can be judged to be good and the spark plug is functioning optimally."
And I am quite sure that, that link is talking about and showing a pic of a spark plug from water cooled engine that can be run in a leaner condition. Not an air cooled engine that needs to be run a bit richer for it's cooling abilities. Furthermore my "Internet read is only telling him that he has a lean condition" those plugs along with the fact that I already knew his pipes were "BLUE" is all I need to be very comfortable saying that his bike has a lean condition!!! I was not reading the plugs in all ranges as your link and you are suggesting. If you bothered to read my post I think it said something about not knowing exactly what is going on with his bike due to the 1 black plug and had a suggestion of where to start at checking for a intake manifold leak.

The plugs in the pic that I posted are from my bike with an absolute Known AFR with having an AFR gauge. That is the color that should be shown on a air cooled motorcycle spark plug. I have been a mechanic for a living since 1974 and have been doing this stuff for a long time. I don't know what your skill level is but mine before I retired was Certified Master Mechanic Auto and Heavy Duty Truck and Journeyman Equipment Repair Specialist. The only reason I said "WAS" is because I'm retired and didn't pay to keep my all my Certs up to date when it's not needed.
My pipes wasn't that bad blue lol

01Roadstar_Messer wrote:



My pipes wasn't that bad blue lol [/quote]

davej wrote:
01Roadstar_Messer wrote:



My pipes wasn't that bad blue lol

[/quote]

Well maybe

DaveJ I am not questioning your presumed skills... but nowhere did he say he performed a plug chop. So whatever engine operation prior to yanking those plugs (ie idling, or warming up or cooling down) is what you are seeing. I am 62 years old and have worked on internal combustion units for 40 of those years. I would not and will not give tuning advise from pictures as it is a science dependent on a multitude of parameters, and I am simply cautioning individuals from jumping to expensive conclusions based on a read of a photograph.

I don't want to create a shit storm, and I am sorry if you perceive I am.

Cqyqte wrote:
DaveJ I am not questioning your presumed skills... but nowhere did he say he performed a plug chop. So whatever engine operation prior to yanking those plugs (ie idling, or warming up or cooling down) is what you are seeing. I am 62 years old and have worked on internal combustion units for 40 of those years. I would not and will not give tuning advise from pictures as it is a science dependent on a multitude of parameters, and I am simply cautioning individuals from jumping to expensive conclusions based on a read of a photograph.

I don't want to create a shit storm, and I am sorry if you perceive I am.

Don't worry about a shit storm. The advise given was not an expensive conclusion and the plug shown don't matter if he did a chop or not it shows a lean condition and added to his blue pipes I know for a fact he has an issue. Tuning a R* is really not that scientific. There are only 2 different engines and a few jet kits. When it comes down to HC pistons and/or big bore then things will be different and even then there won't be much difference between 2 bikes with similar engine mods. All thing reasonably equal and using the same jet kit 2 1600's will have the same jetting, same with 2 1700's and so on. I have been thru a few different exhaust with dynos on each of the first 3 and very little if any change was needed when changing the exhaust. Then I installed a wide band AFR meter and did a lot of jetting configuration changes to see what differences they made and in what ranges. Quickly looking at a plug can and will give a good indication of what is going on, especially when they are to the extreme either rich or lean. And I would think you know that if you have been working on engines for 40 yr's. You don't have to give advice if you aren't comfortable doing so but I will, and with my experience I will feel comfortable doing so.

I have never truly trusted dyno results as the air flow to the air filter isn't dynamic as it is in real life and I have had to re-tune dyno tuned bikes because of the dynamic affects of air flow on the road. Fans will help but they do not duplicate life. You are right an AFR and data logger providing mapping on a ridden bike is truly the closest means to fine tune an engine. Maybe because of our ethanol blended gases with a tonne of detergent additives in Canada we find tip porcelain color to be less of a true mixture indicator. Having seen so much variation over the years I tend to with hold decisions until I collect as much data as I can on which to determine the tune of any motor.

I haven't had the cover off mine in 2 months.

I just sat on the bike waiting for spring.

Cike did you get those new pipes yet? The last set did get ordered and my buddy said thanks for the lead on them.